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As I work through finishing the Parish Info module for Drupal, I've been building out dictionaries, of sorts, for the different properties. Everything will be fairly normalized, and universal standards will be used for most things, like times, timezones, days of the week, etc.
Some things will simply be chosen by convention (as there are very few standardized data formats in the Church—but I hope that will change!).
I like what I see in the xml format -- but, it strikes me that it might be helpful to have a sort of data dictionary to give guidance for things like standard parish events (mass, confession/reconciliation, adoration, benediction, etc); you do include event language, I think -- so when someone goes to add data, might they wonder is the event is mass in spanish, would that be misa / espanol or mass/spanish?
Maybe this project is not at that point, but, after years of working with things like Dublin Core in an academic library, it seems that a part of the standard should eventually include some definitions.
Also, when it gets to a proper level of standardization, I might well work on a Wordpress version -- maybe a plugin.
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When Cathnet.org was more active, we had received permission to use the CCC from the Vatican itself. I'm not the one that set that up, but I remember there being some sort of requirement that we have a pair of bishops or something like that overseeing what we were doing with it (something the individuals in Australia were able to do.) It sounds like it's easier to go through the USCCB.
For the NAB, I've heard that a large part of the problem has to do with how many different groups were involved in the translation. I don't know how true that is nor not, however. I could imagine the same problem might apply to the RSV. Does anybody know more about this?
I am not sure that Jesus intended for their to be a copywrite on the Bible? Thanks Jeff for advocating for this important issue. I think that if the USCCB is serious about the New Evangelization, they should make the RSV, NAB, and Cathechism for free and easy access. I could see a 99 cent app to help cover development costs. Note: (you reply box will not accept my web page address: www.calltoholiness.us probably because of newer type internet extensions?)
I like the changes you made, even cleaner! Let me add to some of your points:
I want the format to be able to show information for one or more parishes (so the same format could be used for a diocesan website or parish website). For example, the root element could be <parishes></parishes>, and each parish would be <parish></parish> (something like that).
I thought about this and hear me out...It's just a thought. Shouldn't the Parish be the top of the Hiarchy when it comes to the Parish info? What I mean, wouldn't it make more sense to have the Diocese pull the Parish Information into OPML from all of it's Parishes instead of having two separate XML files which could potentially not match? Since you are more familiar with the Parish side of things am I missing something? I think it would be much more simpler and easier to maintain on the Dicoesen side of things.
For simplicity of time information, each parish event could be a <parishevent></parishevent> with a mandatory <starttime>, but optional <endtime>. Also, the times should probably be GMT and 24-hour time, or something like that. If not GMT, they should also have a time zone attached.
I like the start/end time part, avoid the GMT/UTC or have both! Definetly have the time zone though. I have extensive experience pulling my hair out in regards to having a nationwide system all transmit in UTC and then trying to convert to local. What a nightmare!!! You need to know if the user is currently in local time, or just viewing from another time zone...Trust me, I would default everything to local time and include the Time Zone.
I think it would also be a little simpler/saner to have all the location information inside a <parishlocation> element, instead of having individual parts in with the master parish information section (since location is secondary to name, rite, diocese, etc.).
Yeah, that looks a little nicer and simpler for sure!
I would strongly recommend not including the email in the XML, they will get spammed left and right! Perhaps a link to their contact page?
I think this is well on it's way to being standardized! Great Job!
Please see the XML Format for Parish Directory Information page for an updated revision; I've been working on coding the 'Parish Info' module for Drupal, and after looking at sample data from a few dioceses (especially in the Archdiocese of St. Louis), I'm thinking we'll need a bit of a more generic solution (and a solution that will scale from one to hundreds or thousands of parishes in the same file...).
Thanks! I'm actually working on a much-improved 1.1 release of Open Parish right now, so you may want to hold off just a tiny bit longer for that :)
I'd definitely like to see your work for Airy Blue 7.x... I've been meaning to port it and this site to Drupal 7 for a while, and the theme should be relatively easy to get working in D7 since its built on Zen, which was the basis for the refreshed templates in D7
Jeff, I just discovered your work here a couple of days ago when looking for Drupal theme ideas. I'm impressed in many ways. I like your minimalist ideas for web design and your openness to promote the Catholic faith via the technology at hand.
I'm trying to duplicate Airy Blue for Drupal 7 and if it seems to work I would be willing to give you the theme files to see if you could incorporate them into a 7.x-1.x-dev.
I am taking a look at Open Parish with a Priest friend of ours in mind. He has 3 parishes in Montana under his wing and they have no web sites.
It seems like they're at least more open about CCC rights than the NAB/NABRE. I'm not sure if you can just lift the text and use it for whatever you want, though.
I am confused. Can one just use on-line or in printed form the CCC as it is given in ENglish at the Vatican's website? There the only notice about copyright is for the Latin edition (this is on an ENglish language page--presumably they don't care?
I like a lot of the ideas in the above format, but here are a few notes I have after a quick read-through:
I want the format to be able to show information for one or more parishes (so the same format could be used for a diocesan website or parish website). For example, the root element could be <parishes></parishes>, and each parish would be <parish></parish> (something like that).
For simplicity of time information, each parish event could be a <parishevent></parishevent> with a mandatory <starttime>, but optional <endtime>. Also, the times should probably be GMT and 24-hour time, or something like that. If not GMT, they should also have a time zone attached.
I think it would also be a little simpler/saner to have all the location information inside a <parishlocation> element, instead of having individual parts in with the master parish information section (since location is secondary to name, rite, diocese, etc.).
I've started a Wiki page here for simpler reading of the format. But please keep discussion in this thread (for simplicity's sake).
I haven't used it, and wouldn't trust it (or other automated app builders) any further than I could throw it. A lot of tools like this will inject things in your app that are similar to malware, or they'll overcharge you (if they're for-pay) for something as simple as wrapping your website in a WebView...
Just 1 Word has an app for the NABRE in its bible collection and I picked it up about 2 months ago after searching a long time for one for my iPad. It's a decent app that also allows you to download other translations (some free, some pay) and conncets to a online version that will sync your notes, highlights, etc to the cloud. So far it's been very helpful to me but it's not Catholic based for sure.
I, too, would love to see the CCC and Revised Roman Missal become searchable apps and yet I understand why granting that permission is going to be hard for the keepers of the faith. The more we show the value of it for evangelization, the more they will seriously consider it but remember they do move at a snail's pace. Keep up the good fight, Jeff!
I have also run afoul of the licensing/copyright issues in the past. I also once owned a Word doc of the complete Catechism that was given to my back in 1994.
I think some of the reasoning behind the licensing amounts to (a) they want to control who uses/displays the text to ensure that it's not abused or flawed or faulty and (b) the licensing fees help to cover the costs of translating and printing the books (or keep them lower) not just in this country but in all English-speaking countries.
According to Msgr. Andrew Wadsworth, executive director of the International Committee on English in the Liturgy, this is why there's a licensing fee on reproduction of the Roman Missal. He was interviewed on the radio show I work with, The Good Catholic Life, and in it he said the fees subsidize the printing for poor countries like India, so that every priest in every little parish can get a new Roman Missal.
It might be something similar in this case too. That said, I wish there was a way that they could see that the old copyright/licensing model is stifling evangelization and just don't work in this era of apps and web sites.
I wonder if they'd be amenable to that for the NABRE; it seems not, as far as I can tell. However, I've heard from other developers that they've had trouble getting approvals for the CCC :-/
On October 14, 2008, I received an email from Mary Sperry (Associate Director for Permissions at the USCCB), which I have edited slightly. This was in reference to an older version of my Catechism search tool at a different web site.
Dear Mr. Pinyan:
I recently became aware of your website that offers a search engine for the Catechism of the Catholic Church [...].
[This text is] under copyright and I did not note a copyright acknowledgment or any indication that you have received permission to post [this text]. As I administer permission for the Catechism of the Catholic Church [...], my files should contain a notice of granting [this permission] and I cannot seem to find one. Can you provide any information in this regard?
Thank you.
I replied that day:
I have not applied for any permission for [its] display. The closest I come to a disclaimer to this regard on the web site is: "None of the content from these tools is property of The Cross Reference, and all of it is found elsewhere on the Internet already."
Please advise me as soon as possible regarding the steps I should take to avoid infringing upon the copyrights of these texts.
Mary Sperry responded within the hour:
To post the Catechism, please submit a request in writing clarifying the use you intend to make and the source of your text. I will forward that request to the Subcommittee on the Ctaechism for their review.
A week later, I submitted the following request (again, slightly edited):
To Whom It May Concern:
My name is Jeffrey Pinyan, a parishioner of Queenship of Mary parish in Plainsboro, NJ, in the diocese of Metuchen. I am a software developer by trade; I also facilitate two Bible studies (one at my parish, and one at a neighboring parish). In one of these studies, I make as much use of the Catechism of the Catholic Church as I can, making appropriate references to it based on the Scripture being studied at the time.
I own a paper copy of the Catechism and have made extensive use of the online Catechism portal hosted by the parish of St. Charles Borromeo in Piyacune, MS. While the searching interface of the online Catechism is sufficient for finding paragraphs by a single word or phrase, it does not allow for finding paragraphs by Scripture reference (found in the footnotes), and the Scripture index found in the Catechism does not appear online to my knowledge. It is for this purpose that I wish to provide an online portal to the Catechism: for finding paragraphs based on Scripture reference or by more complex search terms. At the very least, I would ask permission for the portal to exist without displaying the text of the Catechism, but merely the relevant paragraph numbers.
I also ask to have permission to publish online the Scripture index of the Catechism (which indicates, for each paragraph of the Catechism, each verse of Scripture referred to).
A month later, I received an email reporting approval:
The Subcommittee for the Catechism has approved your request.
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which you like the best.The choices in footwear include sandals.pumps.wedge heels.boots.and more.You can find everything you need with the Michael Kors collection.Shoes that are in style for youMichael Kors provides the shoe for any outfit and any occasion.Some of the shoes available that are the most versatile include a lot of the following below.The McGraw leather boot.If you like your boots to go to your knees then this can be the right boot for you.You can not only walk taller but feel attractive too.This boot is made from a soft cognac leather so it will be durable and dependable for a long time.With this type of leather.the more you wear it.the softer it will feel.It features a five-inch platform heel that you can wear for everyday or simply on an occasion.Every woman needs a pair of leopard print pumps for all those irregular nights out.The leopard print pumps feature a peep toe and also a graffiti design.It has a five-inch stacked heel
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While it has the Imprimatur, it has not been approved as able to be used in liturgical contexts (Liturgy of the Hours, Mass texts, readings, etc.).
The Douay Rhiems Bible has an Imprimatur.
As I work through finishing the Parish Info module for Drupal, I've been building out dictionaries, of sorts, for the different properties. Everything will be fairly normalized, and universal standards will be used for most things, like times, timezones, days of the week, etc.
Some things will simply be chosen by convention (as there are very few standardized data formats in the Church—but I hope that will change!).
I like what I see in the xml format -- but, it strikes me that it might be helpful to have a sort of data dictionary to give guidance for things like standard parish events (mass, confession/reconciliation, adoration, benediction, etc); you do include event language, I think -- so when someone goes to add data, might they wonder is the event is mass in spanish, would that be misa / espanol or mass/spanish?
Maybe this project is not at that point, but, after years of working with things like Dublin Core in an academic library, it seems that a part of the standard should eventually include some definitions.
Also, when it gets to a proper level of standardization, I might well work on a Wordpress version -- maybe a plugin.
Nice work so far.
Good day!!!!!
It's just a way for spammers to get into your inbox. The drug is called Cialis, but they add the "soft tab" or they spell cialis wrong....it's just word-play to get that stupid ad through your spam filter.!!!buy cialis generic!!
Pa...
____________________________
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When Cathnet.org was more active, we had received permission to use the CCC from the Vatican itself. I'm not the one that set that up, but I remember there being some sort of requirement that we have a pair of bishops or something like that overseeing what we were doing with it (something the individuals in Australia were able to do.) It sounds like it's easier to go through the USCCB.
For the NAB, I've heard that a large part of the problem has to do with how many different groups were involved in the translation. I don't know how true that is nor not, however. I could imagine the same problem might apply to the RSV. Does anybody know more about this?
Try entering an http:// before the address, and see if that works... it's pretty strict :)
I am not sure that Jesus intended for their to be a copywrite on the Bible? Thanks Jeff for advocating for this important issue. I think that if the USCCB is serious about the New Evangelization, they should make the RSV, NAB, and Cathechism for free and easy access. I could see a 99 cent app to help cover development costs. Note: (you reply box will not accept my web page address: www.calltoholiness.us probably because of newer type internet extensions?)
Happy New Year!
I like the changes you made, even cleaner! Let me add to some of your points:
I thought about this and hear me out...It's just a thought. Shouldn't the Parish be the top of the Hiarchy when it comes to the Parish info? What I mean, wouldn't it make more sense to have the Diocese pull the Parish Information into OPML from all of it's Parishes instead of having two separate XML files which could potentially not match? Since you are more familiar with the Parish side of things am I missing something? I think it would be much more simpler and easier to maintain on the Dicoesen side of things.
I like the start/end time part, avoid the GMT/UTC or have both! Definetly have the time zone though. I have extensive experience pulling my hair out in regards to having a nationwide system all transmit in UTC and then trying to convert to local. What a nightmare!!! You need to know if the user is currently in local time, or just viewing from another time zone...Trust me, I would default everything to local time and include the Time Zone.
Yeah, that looks a little nicer and simpler for sure!
I would strongly recommend not including the email in the XML, they will get spammed left and right! Perhaps a link to their contact page?
I think this is well on it's way to being standardized! Great Job!
Joao
Please see the XML Format for Parish Directory Information page for an updated revision; I've been working on coding the 'Parish Info' module for Drupal, and after looking at sample data from a few dioceses (especially in the Archdiocese of St. Louis), I'm thinking we'll need a bit of a more generic solution (and a solution that will scale from one to hundreds or thousands of parishes in the same file...).
Thanks! I'm actually working on a much-improved 1.1 release of Open Parish right now, so you may want to hold off just a tiny bit longer for that :)
I'd definitely like to see your work for Airy Blue 7.x... I've been meaning to port it and this site to Drupal 7 for a while, and the theme should be relatively easy to get working in D7 since its built on Zen, which was the basis for the refreshed templates in D7
Jeff, I just discovered your work here a couple of days ago when looking for Drupal theme ideas. I'm impressed in many ways. I like your minimalist ideas for web design and your openness to promote the Catholic faith via the technology at hand.
I'm trying to duplicate Airy Blue for Drupal 7 and if it seems to work I would be willing to give you the theme files to see if you could incorporate them into a 7.x-1.x-dev.
I am taking a look at Open Parish with a Priest friend of ours in mind. He has 3 parishes in Montana under his wing and they have no web sites.
It seems like they're at least more open about CCC rights than the NAB/NABRE. I'm not sure if you can just lift the text and use it for whatever you want, though.
I am confused. Can one just use on-line or in printed form the CCC as it is given in ENglish at the Vatican's website? There the only notice about copyright is for the Latin edition (this is on an ENglish language page--presumably they don't care?
For namespace/general layout of the file, something like:
<parishdata xmlns="http://www.opensourcecatholic.com/parishdata"><parish>
<name>St. Lucy</diocese>
<diocese>St. Louis</diocese>
<website>http://www.example.com/</website>
</parish>
<parish>
<name>St. Lucy</diocese>
<diocese>St. Louis</diocese>
<website>http://www.example.com/</website>
</parish>
</parishdata>
I like a lot of the ideas in the above format, but here are a few notes I have after a quick read-through:
I've started a Wiki page here for simpler reading of the format. But please keep discussion in this thread (for simplicity's sake).
I haven't used it, and wouldn't trust it (or other automated app builders) any further than I could throw it. A lot of tools like this will inject things in your app that are similar to malware, or they'll overcharge you (if they're for-pay) for something as simple as wrapping your website in a WebView...
Just 1 Word has an app for the NABRE in its bible collection and I picked it up about 2 months ago after searching a long time for one for my iPad. It's a decent app that also allows you to download other translations (some free, some pay) and conncets to a online version that will sync your notes, highlights, etc to the cloud. So far it's been very helpful to me but it's not Catholic based for sure.
I, too, would love to see the CCC and Revised Roman Missal become searchable apps and yet I understand why granting that permission is going to be hard for the keepers of the faith. The more we show the value of it for evangelization, the more they will seriously consider it but remember they do move at a snail's pace. Keep up the good fight, Jeff!
Just posted to front page and reset the post date; forgot to do this initially... Whoops!
I have also run afoul of the licensing/copyright issues in the past. I also once owned a Word doc of the complete Catechism that was given to my back in 1994.
I think some of the reasoning behind the licensing amounts to (a) they want to control who uses/displays the text to ensure that it's not abused or flawed or faulty and (b) the licensing fees help to cover the costs of translating and printing the books (or keep them lower) not just in this country but in all English-speaking countries.
According to Msgr. Andrew Wadsworth, executive director of the International Committee on English in the Liturgy, this is why there's a licensing fee on reproduction of the Roman Missal. He was interviewed on the radio show I work with, The Good Catholic Life, and in it he said the fees subsidize the printing for poor countries like India, so that every priest in every little parish can get a new Roman Missal.
It might be something similar in this case too. That said, I wish there was a way that they could see that the old copyright/licensing model is stifling evangelization and just don't work in this era of apps and web sites.
Also, some technical stuff about the tool:
1. First version was written in Perl; second (current) version is written in PHP.
2. Supports Google-ish keyword searches ("this" -"not that")
3. Supports regex searches too (~pattern)
4. Required the development of a Scripture reference parser (2 Kgs 1:3; Mt 5-8; 1Jn 3:10-4:6)
I wonder if they'd be amenable to that for the NABRE; it seems not, as far as I can tell. However, I've heard from other developers that they've had trouble getting approvals for the CCC :-/
More discussion over here: http://www.opensourcecatholic.com/blog/jeff-geerling/open-access-catholic
Certainly:
On October 14, 2008, I received an email from Mary Sperry (Associate Director for Permissions at the USCCB), which I have edited slightly. This was in reference to an older version of my Catechism search tool at a different web site.
I replied that day:
Mary Sperry responded within the hour:
A week later, I submitted the following request (again, slightly edited):
A month later, I received an email reporting approval: